PCC Minutes: Monday 26th September 2023
St Luke’s Church, Grayshott
Meeting 406 of the PCC in Timothy Room at 7.30 pm.
Present:
PCC Members: Revd Jeremy Haswell (Chairman), Sheila Austin, Edward Tobin, Philippa Whitaker, Clive Purkiss, Clive Loder, Hilary Loder, Jeremy Hassell, Alice Murphy, Frankie Kelly, Penny Thomas, Anne Gale-Jones, Ros Balfour, Viv Ward and Chris Grocock.
1. Welcome and opening prayer
Revd Haswell read a passage from 2 Chronicles 7 and opened the meeting with a prayer. Penny Thomas introduced a passage from Colossians 3 v 12 & 17 & Jeremy reflected on this.
2. Apologies
None
3. Minutes of PCC Meetings 405
The minutes were agreed. A copy of the minutes was signed by the chairman.
3a. Matters arising – action list.
i-know church training – Anna Gilderson was updating the church’s Facebook page and is taking an interest in maintaining the website.
Risk Assessment of youth activities – Hilary Loder will be making out specific risk assessments as they become necessary.
Safeguarding – Penny Thomas confirmed that all PCC members are DBS checked but encouraged all to do the online training modules – some were still outstanding. Jeremy emphasised how important safeguarding has become in church life. He is undergoing safeguarding leadership training. He thanked both safeguarding officers – Penny and Hilary – for their work.
4. Vicar’s Report
The Monday afternoon alpha course had just started that afternoon and was well attended.
Chris Grocock had been requested to / offered to run a Post Alpha course e.g. after Christmas. Jeremy pointed out that an evening alpha course was also planned as working age people could not make the Monday afternoon course.
Church Development Plan (CDP)
Fundraising Group Meeting – ideas coming out. Jeremy said that the electronic card-reader has been helpful since it was installed earlier this year.
A new Stewardship Recorder was needed urgently. Shelagh Edwards had been doing a very good job but was needing to hand over the work right away as her family circumstances had changed.
There had been a Zoom meeting of the vicar, treasurer and churchwardens with the archdeacon, Martin Breadmore and David Senior on 13th September to discuss the PCC's decision to stop the monthly payments to the Diocese. It was a robust meeting. We were asking for collaboration and the meeting ended with this being agreed to be put to the PCC. We presented various schedules and pointed out our staff redundancies.
5. Finance Report
The treasurer’s quarterly finance report to June 2023 had been circulated to the PCC before the meeting.
A budget had been prepared in November 2022 which showed a deficit of £40k. (£28k general fund & 12k youth).
In January2023, the treasurer had advised the diocese of this and what actions St.Luke’s PCC was taking. He listed a number of ideas to increase income.
In addition, we have laid off 2 staff members - one administrator and the youth minister.
Other ideas listed envisaged an increase in the number of volunteers helping run the church but we are still short.
Viv presented the June accounts which included full payment of our parish share (as this was only interrupted from July onwards)
The reforecast showed the general fund deficit was now £31k and the youth fund was down to £4k. This made a total deficit of £35k which was an improvement.
Analysis of giving: 87 people give regular donations totalling £70k /year and the reclaimed gift aid is £15k making a total of £85k.
The parish share required by the diocese is £95k.
The treasurer made out a 3year plan based on current figures:
In 2024, with an assumed inflation rate of 5%, he calculated there would be a £39k deficit.
In 2025, with an assumed inflation rate of 3%, he calculated there would be a £40k deficit.
In 2026, with an assumed inflation rate of 2%, he calculated there would be a £40k deficit.
Viv had looked at a comparison of the parish share paid by the parishes in our deanery, but the latest figures he could find were from 2020. On the basis of these figures, St. Lukes’ payments were the second highest in the Farnham deanery.
It was unrealistic to think we could match our income to this annual payment.
He suggested that, if our parish share payments were reduced to £72k /year (£6k/ month), then this might be achievable.
The response from the diocese had been, as expected, that any money not paid now would always be owed and the debt would increase. This could not be written off.
Viv explained that the parish share is a voluntary payment with no legal obligation. However, the diocese employs our vicar and owns the vicarage. When Jeremy leaves, it is possible he would not be replaced with a full-time incumbent resident in the parish.
Viv pointed out how much pressure is being put on Jeremy.
In response to this, David Senior will come to address the congregation at the end of October and has accepted that, as a temporary measure, our £8k monthly payment could be reduced to £6k. This would make an annual payment around £72.
The youth fund to pay for a part-time youth worker is now funded entirely from a grant from East Hampshire District Council (EHDC) and would not require any funding from the general fund.
This would take a reforecast deficit to £22k.
Viv announced that we have been given a single £10k donation with gift aid making a total of £12.5. This would leave the annual deficit at around £10k although this does not budget for any improvements and next year’s deficit would remain as forecast at around £39k.
The diocese has pointed out that our donors at St Lukes are, on average, giving £15.47/week. However, the average across the whole diocese is £23.91 / donor / week. This is 55% higher than what we give if our donors were to match this average donation, our parish’s income from regular giving would be £108K or £38k extra above our present income.
A breakdown of the costs covered by our parish share contributions are:
£47k to employ a full-time incumbent minister.
£18k housing costs.
Our 2023 parish share calculation is based on 2017 figures.
For the October statistics sent to the diocese, our average Sunday service attendance was:
130 in 2017, 112 in 2018, 133 in 2019 and 66 in 2022 (2020 and 2021 were the pandemic).
Jeremy pointed out the remaining payment about the £65k annual payment for our “model of ministry” with one stipendiary vicar – i.e. £30k – is calculated from a formula taking account of number of residences in the parish and an index of affluence.
He had established that one neighbouring parish was due to pay a similar parish share to ours this year.
Hilary told the PCC that a company called Experion provided the diocese with the “affluence” index. As with the school, this was not entirely representative of our local population.
She quoted from the C of E website that the purpose of the parish share was to ensure support for the parishes.
Jeremy felt that the meeting with the archdeacon and David Senior had resulted in collaboration.
Parish Share payments have been stopped since July as voted at the last PCC meeting. This is building up a debt.
Clive Loder asked for clarification about the figures.
Jeremy commented that we might be able to find grants to supplement our funds.
Penny felt that we had been treated very badly by the diocese in a Christian organisation. We cannot afford the payments they require. She pointed out that PCC members are all trustees for the parish and personally responsible.
Viv confirmed that the reserves would be enough to cover a £10k deficit.
Hilary asked what would happen if the PCC became insolvent. Viv pointed out that the parish share is a contribution rather than a legal payment.
Chris Grocock asked whether we knew of other parishes in similar situations. Jeremy knew of a parish which had income from a house rental.
Ros pointed out that several parishioners were staying at home since Covid and do not attend church services in person.
The treasurer proposed:
- That we adjust our previous decision to stop payments to the Diocese and replace this with payments of £6,000 per month from 1 July.
- That we also ask the Diocese to review our Parish Share to be more in line with those churches in our Deanery and suggest an annual donation of £70,000.
This was seconded by the vicar.
The request to review our parish share payments was in light of our reduced church membership.
Viv suggested that we put together our questions for the archdeacon and David Senior in advance of their meeting with us on 9th October. Sheila asked that she be sent the list of questions and she would collate them and send them to David Senior.
Clive Purkiss expressed concern about the transparency the diocese shows in calculating the parish share.
Penny asked that we review the situation very soon after the meeting with the archdeacon and David Senior.
Hilary pointed out that there is no policy about the reserves we hold. She said that, as trustees, PCC members are unprotected. We would need money to dismantle the “business”.
Viv said that it was common practice that reserves should cover 3 month’s operating costs.
Church accounts are different in that, since the 1970’s, the PCC does not own the church. He felt that the situation was safe at present but would endorse having a reserves policy as Hilary had suggested.
A vote was taken:
8 members were in favour of the proposal and 6 members against it.
Chris Grocock had left the meeting by this point.
Viv asked that the closeness of the vote be made apparent to the diocese even though it was carried.
Ros pointed out that a recent service at a local nursing home had 35 attendees. Sheila reminded people that such figures would need to be included in statistics for mission in October.
6. Churchwardens Reports
Sheila briefly went through her report before she left.
Jeremy thanked the assistant churchwardens for all their hard work in the church, church hall and the churchyard.
Clive Loder reminded the PCC about the safety around the gravestones.
7. Youth Work
Hilary presented her report including the appointment of Rhys Maclaren as the part-time youth worker. As part of the interview, he was assessed running an evening of the Base youth club.
We are therefore honouring our commitment to provide a secular youth club for the village. This is 60% of our youth work.
Chris Grocock has offered to mentor the youth bible meetings on Wednesdays. Alice Murphy has offered to help until Christmas, but other volunteers will still be needed.
Hilary asked for the PCC’s continuing prayers for the youth worker and the service provided.
Jeremy said how encouraged he was Rhys’s appointment. Rhys is also working at Woolmer Hill School as a teaching assistant. He praised his diligence.
8. Other reports
Jeremy reminded PCC members about the monthly prayer meeting on the second Tuesday of the month.
He commented on the recent well-attended service at Moorlands Lodge. This isn’t funded proportionately, and he will be addressing this.
He commented about Claire’s work with outreach in the village.
Fundraising ventures have been arranged with owners of vintage cars and Applegarth restaurant which was very encouraging.
Jeremy thanked Anne Gale-Jones for her work in hospitality.
Clive Loder reminded people of the Harvest Supper planned for 14th October.
The patronal festival will be on 22nd October.
The meeting finished with a prayer by Jeremy Hassell and the grace at 9.45pm.
Signed by Revd Jeremy Haswell 20th November 2023