PCC 402

PCC Minutes: Monday 30^th January 2023

St Luke’s Church, Grayshott

 

Meeting 402 of the PCC in Timothy Room at 7.30 pm.

 

Present: 

PCC Members:  Revd Jeremy Haswell (Chairman), Sheila Austin, Edward Tobin, Philippa Whitaker, Clive Purkiss, Clive Loder, Jeremy Hassell, Alice Murphy, Frankie Kelly, Allison Sutcliffe, Penny Thomas, Floss Mitchell, Ros Balfour and Viv Ward.

 

 

1. Welcome and opening prayer

Revd Haswell opened the meeting with a reading from Matthew 16 and a prayer.

 

2. Apologies received from:  Revd Elizabeth Knifton, Chris Grocock, Dan Bennett

3. Minutes of PCC Meeting 401 on Monday 28th November 2022

The minutes were agreed. A copy of the minutes was signed by the chairman.

 

3a Action List  

50. Sharing the Load: No changes had been received by Viv Ward.

 

50. Parish Funding Programme (PFP) Sheila Austin reported that the Parish Fundraising Team had met and recognised the seriousness of the financial situation. A number of potential ways of raising money were discussed – the remote card reader provision and the most efficient/cost effective system was being investigated. Clive Purkiss said that grants from Charities was worth pursuing and while Clive had a list of possible sources but that we needed “grant seeker” to take this forward. Clive was prepared to assist but not lead. No member came forward and Revd Haswell said he would consult the local Deanery members to see if any help might be available.

  Action: Revd Haswell

 

50. i-Know church training ongoing but it would help with the production of Rotas.

 

50. Health & Safety Procedures: Edward Tobin confirmed everyone had accessed the proposed Health and Safety Policy document. This was using a template from the Ecclesiastical Insurance.  Some names of those who qualified for the positions were yet to be confirmed. The PCC were asked to approve the document. Revd Haswell sought clarification on a number of issues and was satisfied with the responses received. Allison Sutcliffe noted the information on First Aiders was not completed. Sheila Austin said Dan Bennett will go in, but others will be sought. Ros Balfour confirmed she was up to date for the RDA so she could be included. Sheila Austin said the policy did not indicate how available a first aider must be, but Accident Books were now in the church kitchen and at the back of the church. Jeremy Hassell also confirmed he was qualified and would also be included in the document.

Proposer to approve the H&S Policy: Clive Loder, Seconder Penny Thomas. Approved Unanimously.

 

50. DBS Clearances: Penny Thomas, PCC safeguarding lead, reported that Angela Haine had confirmed that all PCC members clearances were done and were cleared. As far as training was concerned some members still had to complete the online training. Angela Haine had contacted some key people to see how they were progressing with the online safeguarding training. Penny added that there was required training by a number of groups such as sidespeople, bellringers and home groups. It was agreed that a copy of the “Sharing the Load” document would be given to Angela Haine to help identify who might be the right contact in certain groups.

Action: Sheila Austin

Surprise was expressed that some groups needed to complete the training but Penny explained that the training was important for 2 reasons - protection for the church and it provided a good insight what to be aware of.

 

4. Finance Report

Viv Ward did not have accounts  to report because he is preparing the year end documents which would be ready for the next PCC meeting. At the last meeting the 2023 Budget was discussed and the FWG (Finance Working Group) were asked to consider how the deficit   (-£41k) might be reduced. Viv acknowledged that the position St Luke’s is in was awful – the possibility of no funds in the General Fund/Youth Fund at the beginning of 2024. He reported that income was going down and that a monthly amount of £250 had stopped and how he’d like to see increases rather than losses.

Viv provided the meeting with a schedule of potential changes which reflected a possible reduction in the deficit of almost £20k. His difficulty was having the confidence this could be achieved. The largest element was increasing the average attendance for which the vicar is the lead. With an additional 10 people the income could increase by £5k. The Parish Fundraising Team (PFT) are looking at a number of possible fundraising activities, grants and increased lettings. He told the meeting that the energy costs have increased from £6k to £15k.

St Luke’s pays a few pounds less than £8k per month to the Diocese for our Parish Share and our regular giving over the last three months has reduced by £1k per month to £7.4k in December. On top of that we are paying for 1 full time and 1 part-time staff, heating the church and church rooms. The gas bill for December 2022, just for the church, was £1,400.

Viv asked the meeting for any ideas as he was fed up with being the bearer of bad news, as he has for the last two years.

Penny Thomas said considering the size of our church that we raised that much every month was something to be proud of. She acknowledge the problem was dire but it was amazing that people give and give and give and that £8K a month was really a lot of money.

Floss Mitchell said that it was being raised by a shrinking number of people and also by some who had left the church but remained loyal to it and this was unsustainable. She added that the need was to grow the congregation and have a healthy giving base and until we achieve that we are scratching around the surface. The size of the congregation also created the lack of volunteers because those who use to volunteer have left. Floss believed St Luke’s had to address this core issue before any difference could be achieved.

A long and detailed exchange took place with a number of possible solutions being put forward. Particularly encouraging new people to join the Electoral Roll and sign the GDPR form. Alice Murphy said sharing our situation with the wider community might bring rewards. A number of local, non-church, people might respond but it was agreed that this was more likely for a particular project rather than the day to day running.

Viv Ward reminded the meeting that we had had this same discussion a year ago and that although we increased the giving this had only replaced that which had been lost. He added that perhaps we need to be looking into cutting our expenditure to only spending what we are receiving.

A confidential discussion followed and several suggestions put forward. However Viv said that nothing could be progressed unless the PCC gave the FWG/PFT authority to explore these sensitive issues. Revd Haswell said the PCC had now given the FWG the nod to continue to find some very clear models of how we can proceed in the different scenarios. Penny Thomas asked that the Standing Committee/FWG keep the PCC members informed of any developments during the time before the next meeting.

Action: Revd Haswell and Churchwardens agreed to do this.

 

7. Reports:

Vicars’ Report: Revd Haswell stated that as time was getting late Items 5 & 6 would be left for this meeting and asked for any comments on his report. He announced that the Christmas is Coming concert raised £1,393 and this had been a successful event. Edward Tobin noted that Adam Walliker (Headmaster of St. Edmund’s School) had contributed £2k to cover the shortfall in advertising revenue for Grayshott Today.

 

Churchwardens’ Reports.

Fabric: Edward Tobin had nothing to add to his report. Revd Haswell thanked Clive Loder (Assistant Church Warden) for sorting out a technical problem and the PA system on Sunday and recognised that Clive and Patrick Johnston give an enormous unsung time keeping that function going.

Administration: Sheila Austin added only that Richard Pimm (Fire Safety Officer & Assistant Church Warden) had placed 4 torches with magnets in the choir vestry to be used in the event of an emergency when more than 100 people attend a function and evacuation is required.

Children and Youth Report: Susie Millard and Dan had submitted reports which highlighted our close relationship with Grayshott School.

Prayer & Discipleship Report: Brenda is still on sabbatical.

Pastoral Report: Ros Balfour said they had a good number on the Pastoral Team and contact was mainly by phone calls rather than visits. Sheila Austin asked if people were being contacted regularly. Ros said she would monitor this. Action: Ros Balfour

 

The vicar pointed out that the PCC post for a champion for the outreach team remains vacant.

AOB:

1. The Electoral Roll (ER) Officer (John Haine) wanted the PCC to know that the ER revision notice will be posted on 20^th February.
2. The SC had agreed the APCM will be held on Wednesday 19^th April. Edward Tobin asked that the PCC to appoint officers be held immediately after that meeting. This was agreed.
3. A member of the congregation had asked why we were not using the Common Cup for Holy Communion. While the reasons for stopping this was obvious not all agreed any change was necessary and the consensus was to continue with the present method.
4. Lucie (Vicar’s PA) has tried to standardise the room hire rates. However due to differing rates charged currently this will take time but she will work towards that goal. She had produced updated forms for Wedding Fees and Funeral Invoices. Viv Ward explained that some costs on these two were set by the Diocese and we can only change the discretionary ones. Revd Haswell thanked Viv for his huge support for Lucie as she strives to get to know all that is involved.

 

The meeting closed with the Lord’s Prayer and the Grace at 9.30pm.

The date of the next meeting 27^th March 2023.

PCC Minutes: Monday 30^th January 2023

St Luke’s Church, Grayshott

 

Meeting 402 of the PCC in Timothy Room at 7.30 pm.

 

Present: 

PCC Members:  Revd Jeremy Haswell (Chairman), Sheila Austin, Edward Tobin, Philippa Whitaker, Clive Purkiss, Clive Loder, Jeremy Hassell, Alice Murphy, Frankie Kelly, Allison Sutcliffe, Penny Thomas, Floss Mitchell, Ros Balfour and Viv Ward.

 

 

1. Welcome and opening prayer

Revd Haswell opened the meeting with a reading from Matthew 16 and a prayer.

 

2. Apologies received from:  Revd Elizabeth Knifton, Chris Grocock, Dan Bennett

3. Minutes of PCC Meeting 401 on Monday 28th November 2022

The minutes were agreed. A copy of the minutes was signed by the chairman.

 

3a Action List  

50. Sharing the Load: No changes had been received by Viv Ward.

 

50. Parish Funding Programme (PFP) Sheila Austin reported that the Parish Fundraising Team had met and recognised the seriousness of the financial situation. A number of potential ways of raising money were discussed – the remote card reader provision and the most efficient/cost effective system was being investigated. Clive Purkiss said that grants from Charities was worth pursuing and while Clive had a list of possible sources but that we needed “grant seeker” to take this forward. Clive was prepared to assist but not lead. No member came forward and Revd Haswell said he would consult the local Deanery members to see if any help might be available.

  Action: Revd Haswell

 

50. i-Know church training ongoing but it would help with the production of Rotas.

 

50. Health & Safety Procedures: Edward Tobin confirmed everyone had accessed the proposed Health and Safety Policy document. This was using a template from the Ecclesiastical Insurance.  Some names of those who qualified for the positions were yet to be confirmed. The PCC were asked to approve the document. Revd Haswell sought clarification on a number of issues and was satisfied with the responses received. Allison Sutcliffe noted the information on First Aiders was not completed. Sheila Austin said Dan Bennett will go in, but others will be sought. Ros Balfour confirmed she was up to date for the RDA so she could be included. Sheila Austin said the policy did not indicate how available a first aider must be, but Accident Books were now in the church kitchen and at the back of the church. Jeremy Hassell also confirmed he was qualified and would also be included in the document.

Proposer to approve the H&S Policy: Clive Loder, Seconder Penny Thomas. Approved Unanimously.

 

50. DBS Clearances: Penny Thomas, PCC safeguarding lead, reported that Angela Haine had confirmed that all PCC members clearances were done and were cleared. As far as training was concerned some members still had to complete the online training. Angela Haine had contacted some key people to see how they were progressing with the online safeguarding training. Penny added that there was required training by a number of groups such as sidespeople, bellringers and home groups. It was agreed that a copy of the “Sharing the Load” document would be given to Angela Haine to help identify who might be the right contact in certain groups.

Action: Sheila Austin

Surprise was expressed that some groups needed to complete the training but Penny explained that the training was important for 2 reasons - protection for the church and it provided a good insight what to be aware of.

 

4. Finance Report

Viv Ward did not have accounts  to report because he is preparing the year end documents which would be ready for the next PCC meeting. At the last meeting the 2023 Budget was discussed and the FWG (Finance Working Group) were asked to consider how the deficit   (-£41k) might be reduced. Viv acknowledged that the position St Luke’s is in was awful – the possibility of no funds in the General Fund/Youth Fund at the beginning of 2024. He reported that income was going down and that a monthly amount of £250 had stopped and how he’d like to see increases rather than losses.

Viv provided the meeting with a schedule of potential changes which reflected a possible reduction in the deficit of almost £20k. His difficulty was having the confidence this could be achieved. The largest element was increasing the average attendance for which the vicar is the lead. With an additional 10 people the income could increase by £5k. The Parish Fundraising Team (PFT) are looking at a number of possible fundraising activities, grants and increased lettings. He told the meeting that the energy costs have increased from £6k to £15k.

St Luke’s pays a few pounds less than £8k per month to the Diocese for our Parish Share and our regular giving over the last three months has reduced by £1k per month to £7.4k in December. On top of that we are paying for 1 full time and 1 part-time staff, heating the church and church rooms. The gas bill for December 2022, just for the church, was £1,400.

Viv asked the meeting for any ideas as he was fed up with being the bearer of bad news, as he has for the last two years.

Penny Thomas said considering the size of our church that we raised that much every month was something to be proud of. She acknowledge the problem was dire but it was amazing that people give and give and give and that £8K a month was really a lot of money.

Floss Mitchell said that it was being raised by a shrinking number of people and also by some who had left the church but remained loyal to it and this was unsustainable. She added that the need was to grow the congregation and have a healthy giving base and until we achieve that we are scratching around the surface. The size of the congregation also created the lack of volunteers because those who use to volunteer have left. Floss believed St Luke’s had to address this core issue before any difference could be achieved.

A long and detailed exchange took place with a number of possible solutions being put forward. Particularly encouraging new people to join the Electoral Roll and sign the GDPR form. Alice Murphy said sharing our situation with the wider community might bring rewards. A number of local, non-church, people might respond but it was agreed that this was more likely for a particular project rather than the day to day running.

Viv Ward reminded the meeting that we had had this same discussion a year ago and that although we increased the giving this had only replaced that which had been lost. He added that perhaps we need to be looking into cutting our expenditure to only spending what we are receiving.

A confidential discussion followed and several suggestions put forward. However Viv said that nothing could be progressed unless the PCC gave the FWG/PFT authority to explore these sensitive issues. Revd Haswell said the PCC had now given the FWG the nod to continue to find some very clear models of how we can proceed in the different scenarios. Penny Thomas asked that the Standing Committee/FWG keep the PCC members informed of any developments during the time before the next meeting.

Action: Revd Haswell and Churchwardens agreed to do this.

 

7. Reports:

Vicars’ Report: Revd Haswell stated that as time was getting late Items 5 & 6 would be left for this meeting and asked for any comments on his report. He announced that the Christmas is Coming concert raised £1,393 and this had been a successful event. Edward Tobin noted that Adam Walliker (Headmaster of St. Edmund’s School) had contributed £2k to cover the shortfall in advertising revenue for Grayshott Today.

 

Churchwardens’ Reports.

Fabric: Edward Tobin had nothing to add to his report. Revd Haswell thanked Clive Loder (Assistant Church Warden) for sorting out a technical problem and the PA system on Sunday and recognised that Clive and Patrick Johnston give an enormous unsung time keeping that function going.

Administration: Sheila Austin added only that Richard Pimm (Fire Safety Officer & Assistant Church Warden) had placed 4 torches with magnets in the choir vestry to be used in the event of an emergency when more than 100 people attend a function and evacuation is required.

Children and Youth Report: Susie Millard and Dan had submitted reports which highlighted our close relationship with Grayshott School.

Prayer & Discipleship Report: Brenda is still on sabbatical.

Pastoral Report: Ros Balfour said they had a good number on the Pastoral Team and contact was mainly by phone calls rather than visits. Sheila Austin asked if people were being contacted regularly. Ros said she would monitor this. Action: Ros Balfour

 

The vicar pointed out that the PCC post for a champion for the outreach team remains vacant.

AOB:

1. The Electoral Roll (ER) Officer (John Haine) wanted the PCC to know that the ER revision notice will be posted on 20^th February.
2. The SC had agreed the APCM will be held on Wednesday 19^th April. Edward Tobin asked that the PCC to appoint officers be held immediately after that meeting. This was agreed.
3. A member of the congregation had asked why we were not using the Common Cup for Holy Communion. While the reasons for stopping this was obvious not all agreed any change was necessary and the consensus was to continue with the present method.
4. Lucie (Vicar’s PA) has tried to standardise the room hire rates. However due to differing rates charged currently this will take time but she will work towards that goal. She had produced updated forms for Wedding Fees and Funeral Invoices. Viv Ward explained that some costs on these two were set by the Diocese and we can only change the discretionary ones. Revd Haswell thanked Viv for his huge support for Lucie as she strives to get to know all that is involved.

 

The meeting closed with the Lord’s Prayer and the Grace at 9.30pm.

The date of the next meeting 27^th March 2023.

PCC Minutes: Monday 30^th January 2023

St Luke’s Church, Grayshott

 

Meeting 402 of the PCC in Timothy Room at 7.30 pm.

 

Present: 

PCC Members:  Revd Jeremy Haswell (Chairman), Sheila Austin, Edward Tobin, Philippa Whitaker, Clive Purkiss, Clive Loder, Jeremy Hassell, Alice Murphy, Frankie Kelly, Allison Sutcliffe, Penny Thomas, Floss Mitchell, Ros Balfour and Viv Ward.

 

 

1. Welcome and opening prayer

Revd Haswell opened the meeting with a reading from Matthew 16 and a prayer.

 

2. Apologies received from:  Revd Elizabeth Knifton, Chris Grocock, Dan Bennett

3. Minutes of PCC Meeting 401 on Monday 28th November 2022

The minutes were agreed. A copy of the minutes was signed by the chairman.

 

3a Action List  

50. Sharing the Load: No changes had been received by Viv Ward.

 

50. Parish Funding Programme (PFP) Sheila Austin reported that the Parish Fundraising Team had met and recognised the seriousness of the financial situation. A number of potential ways of raising money were discussed – the remote card reader provision and the most efficient/cost effective system was being investigated. Clive Purkiss said that grants from Charities was worth pursuing and while Clive had a list of possible sources but that we needed “grant seeker” to take this forward. Clive was prepared to assist but not lead. No member came forward and Revd Haswell said he would consult the local Deanery members to see if any help might be available.

  Action: Revd Haswell

 

50. i-Know church training ongoing but it would help with the production of Rotas.

 

50. Health & Safety Procedures: Edward Tobin confirmed everyone had accessed the proposed Health and Safety Policy document. This was using a template from the Ecclesiastical Insurance.  Some names of those who qualified for the positions were yet to be confirmed. The PCC were asked to approve the document. Revd Haswell sought clarification on a number of issues and was satisfied with the responses received. Allison Sutcliffe noted the information on First Aiders was not completed. Sheila Austin said Dan Bennett will go in, but others will be sought. Ros Balfour confirmed she was up to date for the RDA so she could be included. Sheila Austin said the policy did not indicate how available a first aider must be, but Accident Books were now in the church kitchen and at the back of the church. Jeremy Hassell also confirmed he was qualified and would also be included in the document.

Proposer to approve the H&S Policy: Clive Loder, Seconder Penny Thomas. Approved Unanimously.

 

50. DBS Clearances: Penny Thomas, PCC safeguarding lead, reported that Angela Haine had confirmed that all PCC members clearances were done and were cleared. As far as training was concerned some members still had to complete the online training. Angela Haine had contacted some key people to see how they were progressing with the online safeguarding training. Penny added that there was required training by a number of groups such as sidespeople, bellringers and home groups. It was agreed that a copy of the “Sharing the Load” document would be given to Angela Haine to help identify who might be the right contact in certain groups.

Action: Sheila Austin

Surprise was expressed that some groups needed to complete the training but Penny explained that the training was important for 2 reasons - protection for the church and it provided a good insight what to be aware of.

 

4. Finance Report

Viv Ward did not have accounts  to report because he is preparing the year end documents which would be ready for the next PCC meeting. At the last meeting the 2023 Budget was discussed and the FWG (Finance Working Group) were asked to consider how the deficit   (-£41k) might be reduced. Viv acknowledged that the position St Luke’s is in was awful – the possibility of no funds in the General Fund/Youth Fund at the beginning of 2024. He reported that income was going down and that a monthly amount of £250 had stopped and how he’d like to see increases rather than losses.

Viv provided the meeting with a schedule of potential changes which reflected a possible reduction in the deficit of almost £20k. His difficulty was having the confidence this could be achieved. The largest element was increasing the average attendance for which the vicar is the lead. With an additional 10 people the income could increase by £5k. The Parish Fundraising Team (PFT) are looking at a number of possible fundraising activities, grants and increased lettings. He told the meeting that the energy costs have increased from £6k to £15k.

St Luke’s pays a few pounds less than £8k per month to the Diocese for our Parish Share and our regular giving over the last three months has reduced by £1k per month to £7.4k in December. On top of that we are paying for 1 full time and 1 part-time staff, heating the church and church rooms. The gas bill for December 2022, just for the church, was £1,400.

Viv asked the meeting for any ideas as he was fed up with being the bearer of bad news, as he has for the last two years.

Penny Thomas said considering the size of our church that we raised that much every month was something to be proud of. She acknowledge the problem was dire but it was amazing that people give and give and give and that £8K a month was really a lot of money.

Floss Mitchell said that it was being raised by a shrinking number of people and also by some who had left the church but remained loyal to it and this was unsustainable. She added that the need was to grow the congregation and have a healthy giving base and until we achieve that we are scratching around the surface. The size of the congregation also created the lack of volunteers because those who use to volunteer have left. Floss believed St Luke’s had to address this core issue before any difference could be achieved.

A long and detailed exchange took place with a number of possible solutions being put forward. Particularly encouraging new people to join the Electoral Roll and sign the GDPR form. Alice Murphy said sharing our situation with the wider community might bring rewards. A number of local, non-church, people might respond but it was agreed that this was more likely for a particular project rather than the day to day running.

Viv Ward reminded the meeting that we had had this same discussion a year ago and that although we increased the giving this had only replaced that which had been lost. He added that perhaps we need to be looking into cutting our expenditure to only spending what we are receiving.

A confidential discussion followed and several suggestions put forward. However Viv said that nothing could be progressed unless the PCC gave the FWG/PFT authority to explore these sensitive issues. Revd Haswell said the PCC had now given the FWG the nod to continue to find some very clear models of how we can proceed in the different scenarios. Penny Thomas asked that the Standing Committee/FWG keep the PCC members informed of any developments during the time before the next meeting.

Action: Revd Haswell and Churchwardens agreed to do this.

 

7. Reports:

Vicars’ Report: Revd Haswell stated that as time was getting late Items 5 & 6 would be left for this meeting and asked for any comments on his report. He announced that the Christmas is Coming concert raised £1,393 and this had been a successful event. Edward Tobin noted that Adam Walliker (Headmaster of St. Edmund’s School) had contributed £2k to cover the shortfall in advertising revenue for Grayshott Today.

 

Churchwardens’ Reports.

Fabric: Edward Tobin had nothing to add to his report. Revd Haswell thanked Clive Loder (Assistant Church Warden) for sorting out a technical problem and the PA system on Sunday and recognised that Clive and Patrick Johnston give an enormous unsung time keeping that function going.

Administration: Sheila Austin added only that Richard Pimm (Fire Safety Officer & Assistant Church Warden) had placed 4 torches with magnets in the choir vestry to be used in the event of an emergency when more than 100 people attend a function and evacuation is required.

Children and Youth Report: Susie Millard and Dan had submitted reports which highlighted our close relationship with Grayshott School.

Prayer & Discipleship Report: Brenda is still on sabbatical.

Pastoral Report: Ros Balfour said they had a good number on the Pastoral Team and contact was mainly by phone calls rather than visits. Sheila Austin asked if people were being contacted regularly. Ros said she would monitor this. Action: Ros Balfour

 

The vicar pointed out that the PCC post for a champion for the outreach team remains vacant.

AOB:

1. The Electoral Roll (ER) Officer (John Haine) wanted the PCC to know that the ER revision notice will be posted on 20^th February.
2. The SC had agreed the APCM will be held on Wednesday 19^th April. Edward Tobin asked that the PCC to appoint officers be held immediately after that meeting. This was agreed.
3. A member of the congregation had asked why we were not using the Common Cup for Holy Communion. While the reasons for stopping this was obvious not all agreed any change was necessary and the consensus was to continue with the present method.
4. Lucie (Vicar’s PA) has tried to standardise the room hire rates. However due to differing rates charged currently this will take time but she will work towards that goal. She had produced updated forms for Wedding Fees and Funeral Invoices. Viv Ward explained that some costs on these two were set by the Diocese and we can only change the discretionary ones. Revd Haswell thanked Viv for his huge support for Lucie as she strives to get to know all that is involved.

 

The meeting closed with the Lord’s Prayer and the Grace at 9.30pm.

The date of the next meeting 27^th March 2023.

PCC Minutes: Monday 30^th January 2023

St Luke’s Church, Grayshott

 

Meeting 402 of the PCC in Timothy Room at 7.30 pm.

 

Present: 

PCC Members:  Revd Jeremy Haswell (Chairman), Sheila Austin, Edward Tobin, Philippa Whitaker, Clive Purkiss, Clive Loder, Jeremy Hassell, Alice Murphy, Frankie Kelly, Allison Sutcliffe, Penny Thomas, Floss Mitchell, Ros Balfour and Viv Ward.

 

 

1. Welcome and opening prayer

Revd Haswell opened the meeting with a reading from Matthew 16 and a prayer.

 

2. Apologies received from:  Revd Elizabeth Knifton, Chris Grocock, Dan Bennett

3. Minutes of PCC Meeting 401 on Monday 28th November 2022

The minutes were agreed. A copy of the minutes was signed by the chairman.

 

3a Action List  

50. Sharing the Load: No changes had been received by Viv Ward.

 

50. Parish Funding Programme (PFP) Sheila Austin reported that the Parish Fundraising Team had met and recognised the seriousness of the financial situation. A number of potential ways of raising money were discussed – the remote card reader provision and the most efficient/cost effective system was being investigated. Clive Purkiss said that grants from Charities was worth pursuing and while Clive had a list of possible sources but that we needed “grant seeker” to take this forward. Clive was prepared to assist but not lead. No member came forward and Revd Haswell said he would consult the local Deanery members to see if any help might be available.

  Action: Revd Haswell

 

50. i-Know church training ongoing but it would help with the production of Rotas.

 

50. Health & Safety Procedures: Edward Tobin confirmed everyone had accessed the proposed Health and Safety Policy document. This was using a template from the Ecclesiastical Insurance.  Some names of those who qualified for the positions were yet to be confirmed. The PCC were asked to approve the document. Revd Haswell sought clarification on a number of issues and was satisfied with the responses received. Allison Sutcliffe noted the information on First Aiders was not completed. Sheila Austin said Dan Bennett will go in, but others will be sought. Ros Balfour confirmed she was up to date for the RDA so she could be included. Sheila Austin said the policy did not indicate how available a first aider must be, but Accident Books were now in the church kitchen and at the back of the church. Jeremy Hassell also confirmed he was qualified and would also be included in the document.

Proposer to approve the H&S Policy: Clive Loder, Seconder Penny Thomas. Approved Unanimously.

 

50. DBS Clearances: Penny Thomas, PCC safeguarding lead, reported that Angela Haine had confirmed that all PCC members clearances were done and were cleared. As far as training was concerned some members still had to complete the online training. Angela Haine had contacted some key people to see how they were progressing with the online safeguarding training. Penny added that there was required training by a number of groups such as sidespeople, bellringers and home groups. It was agreed that a copy of the “Sharing the Load” document would be given to Angela Haine to help identify who might be the right contact in certain groups.

Action: Sheila Austin

Surprise was expressed that some groups needed to complete the training but Penny explained that the training was important for 2 reasons - protection for the church and it provided a good insight what to be aware of.

 

4. Finance Report

Viv Ward did not have accounts  to report because he is preparing the year end documents which would be ready for the next PCC meeting. At the last meeting the 2023 Budget was discussed and the FWG (Finance Working Group) were asked to consider how the deficit   (-£41k) might be reduced. Viv acknowledged that the position St Luke’s is in was awful – the possibility of no funds in the General Fund/Youth Fund at the beginning of 2024. He reported that income was going down and that a monthly amount of £250 had stopped and how he’d like to see increases rather than losses.

Viv provided the meeting with a schedule of potential changes which reflected a possible reduction in the deficit of almost £20k. His difficulty was having the confidence this could be achieved. The largest element was increasing the average attendance for which the vicar is the lead. With an additional 10 people the income could increase by £5k. The Parish Fundraising Team (PFT) are looking at a number of possible fundraising activities, grants and increased lettings. He told the meeting that the energy costs have increased from £6k to £15k.

St Luke’s pays a few pounds less than £8k per month to the Diocese for our Parish Share and our regular giving over the last three months has reduced by £1k per month to £7.4k in December. On top of that we are paying for 1 full time and 1 part-time staff, heating the church and church rooms. The gas bill for December 2022, just for the church, was £1,400.

Viv asked the meeting for any ideas as he was fed up with being the bearer of bad news, as he has for the last two years.

Penny Thomas said considering the size of our church that we raised that much every month was something to be proud of. She acknowledge the problem was dire but it was amazing that people give and give and give and that £8K a month was really a lot of money.

Floss Mitchell said that it was being raised by a shrinking number of people and also by some who had left the church but remained loyal to it and this was unsustainable. She added that the need was to grow the congregation and have a healthy giving base and until we achieve that we are scratching around the surface. The size of the congregation also created the lack of volunteers because those who use to volunteer have left. Floss believed St Luke’s had to address this core issue before any difference could be achieved.

A long and detailed exchange took place with a number of possible solutions being put forward. Particularly encouraging new people to join the Electoral Roll and sign the GDPR form. Alice Murphy said sharing our situation with the wider community might bring rewards. A number of local, non-church, people might respond but it was agreed that this was more likely for a particular project rather than the day to day running.

Viv Ward reminded the meeting that we had had this same discussion a year ago and that although we increased the giving this had only replaced that which had been lost. He added that perhaps we need to be looking into cutting our expenditure to only spending what we are receiving.

A confidential discussion followed and several suggestions put forward. However Viv said that nothing could be progressed unless the PCC gave the FWG/PFT authority to explore these sensitive issues. Revd Haswell said the PCC had now given the FWG the nod to continue to find some very clear models of how we can proceed in the different scenarios. Penny Thomas asked that the Standing Committee/FWG keep the PCC members informed of any developments during the time before the next meeting.

Action: Revd Haswell and Churchwardens agreed to do this.

 

7. Reports:

Vicars’ Report: Revd Haswell stated that as time was getting late Items 5 & 6 would be left for this meeting and asked for any comments on his report. He announced that the Christmas is Coming concert raised £1,393 and this had been a successful event. Edward Tobin noted that Adam Walliker (Headmaster of St. Edmund’s School) had contributed £2k to cover the shortfall in advertising revenue for Grayshott Today.

 

Churchwardens’ Reports.

Fabric: Edward Tobin had nothing to add to his report. Revd Haswell thanked Clive Loder (Assistant Church Warden) for sorting out a technical problem and the PA system on Sunday and recognised that Clive and Patrick Johnston give an enormous unsung time keeping that function going.

Administration: Sheila Austin added only that Richard Pimm (Fire Safety Officer & Assistant Church Warden) had placed 4 torches with magnets in the choir vestry to be used in the event of an emergency when more than 100 people attend a function and evacuation is required.

Children and Youth Report: Susie Millard and Dan had submitted reports which highlighted our close relationship with Grayshott School.

Prayer & Discipleship Report: Brenda is still on sabbatical.

Pastoral Report: Ros Balfour said they had a good number on the Pastoral Team and contact was mainly by phone calls rather than visits. Sheila Austin asked if people were being contacted regularly. Ros said she would monitor this. Action: Ros Balfour

 

The vicar pointed out that the PCC post for a champion for the outreach team remains vacant.

AOB:

1. The Electoral Roll (ER) Officer (John Haine) wanted the PCC to know that the ER revision notice will be posted on 20^th February.
2. The SC had agreed the APCM will be held on Wednesday 19^th April. Edward Tobin asked that the PCC to appoint officers be held immediately after that meeting. This was agreed.
3. A member of the congregation had asked why we were not using the Common Cup for Holy Communion. While the reasons for stopping this was obvious not all agreed any change was necessary and the consensus was to continue with the present method.
4. Lucie (Vicar’s PA) has tried to standardise the room hire rates. However due to differing rates charged currently this will take time but she will work towards that goal. She had produced updated forms for Wedding Fees and Funeral Invoices. Viv Ward explained that some costs on these two were set by the Diocese and we can only change the discretionary ones. Revd Haswell thanked Viv for his huge support for Lucie as she strives to get to know all that is involved.

 

The meeting closed with the Lord’s Prayer and the Grace at 9.30pm.

The date of the next meeting 27^th March 2023.

PCC Minutes: Monday 30^th January 2023

St Luke’s Church, Grayshott

 

Meeting 402 of the PCC in Timothy Room at 7.30 pm.

 

Present: 

PCC Members:  Revd Jeremy Haswell (Chairman), Sheila Austin, Edward Tobin, Philippa Whitaker, Clive Purkiss, Clive Loder, Jeremy Hassell, Alice Murphy, Frankie Kelly, Allison Sutcliffe, Penny Thomas, Floss Mitchell, Ros Balfour and Viv Ward.

 

 

1. Welcome and opening prayer

Revd Haswell opened the meeting with a reading from Matthew 16 and a prayer.

 

2. Apologies received from:  Revd Elizabeth Knifton, Chris Grocock, Dan Bennett

3. Minutes of PCC Meeting 401 on Monday 28th November 2022

The minutes were agreed. A copy of the minutes was signed by the chairman.

 

3a Action List  

50. Sharing the Load: No changes had been received by Viv Ward.

 

50. Parish Funding Programme (PFP) Sheila Austin reported that the Parish Fundraising Team had met and recognised the seriousness of the financial situation. A number of potential ways of raising money were discussed – the remote card reader provision and the most efficient/cost effective system was being investigated. Clive Purkiss said that grants from Charities was worth pursuing and while Clive had a list of possible sources but that we needed “grant seeker” to take this forward. Clive was prepared to assist but not lead. No member came forward and Revd Haswell said he would consult the local Deanery members to see if any help might be available.

  Action: Revd Haswell

 

50. i-Know church training ongoing but it would help with the production of Rotas.

 

50. Health & Safety Procedures: Edward Tobin confirmed everyone had accessed the proposed Health and Safety Policy document. This was using a template from the Ecclesiastical Insurance.  Some names of those who qualified for the positions were yet to be confirmed. The PCC were asked to approve the document. Revd Haswell sought clarification on a number of issues and was satisfied with the responses received. Allison Sutcliffe noted the information on First Aiders was not completed. Sheila Austin said Dan Bennett will go in, but others will be sought. Ros Balfour confirmed she was up to date for the RDA so she could be included. Sheila Austin said the policy did not indicate how available a first aider must be, but Accident Books were now in the church kitchen and at the back of the church. Jeremy Hassell also confirmed he was qualified and would also be included in the document.

Proposer to approve the H&S Policy: Clive Loder, Seconder Penny Thomas. Approved Unanimously.

 

50. DBS Clearances: Penny Thomas, PCC safeguarding lead, reported that Angela Haine had confirmed that all PCC members clearances were done and were cleared. As far as training was concerned some members still had to complete the online training. Angela Haine had contacted some key people to see how they were progressing with the online safeguarding training. Penny added that there was required training by a number of groups such as sidespeople, bellringers and home groups. It was agreed that a copy of the “Sharing the Load” document would be given to Angela Haine to help identify who might be the right contact in certain groups.

Action: Sheila Austin

Surprise was expressed that some groups needed to complete the training but Penny explained that the training was important for 2 reasons - protection for the church and it provided a good insight what to be aware of.

 

4. Finance Report

Viv Ward did not have accounts  to report because he is preparing the year end documents which would be ready for the next PCC meeting. At the last meeting the 2023 Budget was discussed and the FWG (Finance Working Group) were asked to consider how the deficit   (-£41k) might be reduced. Viv acknowledged that the position St Luke’s is in was awful – the possibility of no funds in the General Fund/Youth Fund at the beginning of 2024. He reported that income was going down and that a monthly amount of £250 had stopped and how he’d like to see increases rather than losses.

Viv provided the meeting with a schedule of potential changes which reflected a possible reduction in the deficit of almost £20k. His difficulty was having the confidence this could be achieved. The largest element was increasing the average attendance for which the vicar is the lead. With an additional 10 people the income could increase by £5k. The Parish Fundraising Team (PFT) are looking at a number of possible fundraising activities, grants and increased lettings. He told the meeting that the energy costs have increased from £6k to £15k.

St Luke’s pays a few pounds less than £8k per month to the Diocese for our Parish Share and our regular giving over the last three months has reduced by £1k per month to £7.4k in December. On top of that we are paying for 1 full time and 1 part-time staff, heating the church and church rooms. The gas bill for December 2022, just for the church, was £1,400.

Viv asked the meeting for any ideas as he was fed up with being the bearer of bad news, as he has for the last two years.

Penny Thomas said considering the size of our church that we raised that much every month was something to be proud of. She acknowledge the problem was dire but it was amazing that people give and give and give and that £8K a month was really a lot of money.

Floss Mitchell said that it was being raised by a shrinking number of people and also by some who had left the church but remained loyal to it and this was unsustainable. She added that the need was to grow the congregation and have a healthy giving base and until we achieve that we are scratching around the surface. The size of the congregation also created the lack of volunteers because those who use to volunteer have left. Floss believed St Luke’s had to address this core issue before any difference could be achieved.

A long and detailed exchange took place with a number of possible solutions being put forward. Particularly encouraging new people to join the Electoral Roll and sign the GDPR form. Alice Murphy said sharing our situation with the wider community might bring rewards. A number of local, non-church, people might respond but it was agreed that this was more likely for a particular project rather than the day to day running.

Viv Ward reminded the meeting that we had had this same discussion a year ago and that although we increased the giving this had only replaced that which had been lost. He added that perhaps we need to be looking into cutting our expenditure to only spending what we are receiving.

A confidential discussion followed and several suggestions put forward. However Viv said that nothing could be progressed unless the PCC gave the FWG/PFT authority to explore these sensitive issues. Revd Haswell said the PCC had now given the FWG the nod to continue to find some very clear models of how we can proceed in the different scenarios. Penny Thomas asked that the Standing Committee/FWG keep the PCC members informed of any developments during the time before the next meeting.

Action: Revd Haswell and Churchwardens agreed to do this.

 

7. Reports:

Vicars’ Report: Revd Haswell stated that as time was getting late Items 5 & 6 would be left for this meeting and asked for any comments on his report. He announced that the Christmas is Coming concert raised £1,393 and this had been a successful event. Edward Tobin noted that Adam Walliker (Headmaster of St. Edmund’s School) had contributed £2k to cover the shortfall in advertising revenue for Grayshott Today.

 

Churchwardens’ Reports.

Fabric: Edward Tobin had nothing to add to his report. Revd Haswell thanked Clive Loder (Assistant Church Warden) for sorting out a technical problem and the PA system on Sunday and recognised that Clive and Patrick Johnston give an enormous unsung time keeping that function going.

Administration: Sheila Austin added only that Richard Pimm (Fire Safety Officer & Assistant Church Warden) had placed 4 torches with magnets in the choir vestry to be used in the event of an emergency when more than 100 people attend a function and evacuation is required.

Children and Youth Report: Susie Millard and Dan had submitted reports which highlighted our close relationship with Grayshott School.

Prayer & Discipleship Report: Brenda is still on sabbatical.

Pastoral Report: Ros Balfour said they had a good number on the Pastoral Team and contact was mainly by phone calls rather than visits. Sheila Austin asked if people were being contacted regularly. Ros said she would monitor this. Action: Ros Balfour

 

The vicar pointed out that the PCC post for a champion for the outreach team remains vacant.

AOB:

1. The Electoral Roll (ER) Officer (John Haine) wanted the PCC to know that the ER revision notice will be posted on 20^th February.
2. The SC had agreed the APCM will be held on Wednesday 19^th April. Edward Tobin asked that the PCC to appoint officers be held immediately after that meeting. This was agreed.
3. A member of the congregation had asked why we were not using the Common Cup for Holy Communion. While the reasons for stopping this was obvious not all agreed any change was necessary and the consensus was to continue with the present method.
4. Lucie (Vicar’s PA) has tried to standardise the room hire rates. However due to differing rates charged currently this will take time but she will work towards that goal. She had produced updated forms for Wedding Fees and Funeral Invoices. Viv Ward explained that some costs on these two were set by the Diocese and we can only change the discretionary ones. Revd Haswell thanked Viv for his huge support for Lucie as she strives to get to know all that is involved.

 

The meeting closed with the Lord’s Prayer and the Grace at 9.30pm.

The date of the next meeting 27^th March 2023.